Making LinkedIn Work For You with Sarah Greesonbach

You watch a handful of master connectors on LinkedIn in your space, wondering if maybe it’s time to step up your post-it-and-run routine. I’ve been inspired by LinkedIn Jedi Master (and Founder of the B2B Writing Institute) Sarah Greesonbach who shares how she uses LinkedIn to grow her business and relationships.

We cover a lot of territory:

How Sarah managed to build two soloist businesses—one with clients and the other with students—with one LinkedIn presence.

Using LinkedIn as a way to develop your point of view and practice your voice with your ideal people.

Why it’s time to step up and be heard even if you don’t look or sound like whatever popular culture says is “in”.

How to rev up your LinkedIn machine without having to prove how smart you are (or spend every waking hour working at it).

A few sample prompts to re-think how to humanize your LinkedIn posts.

 

LINKS

Sarah Greesonbach Website | LinkedIn

Rochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

A FEW OF SARAH’S PLAYFUL SOCIAL PROMPTS

1. 1. What event or milestone can you celebrate that very few others can celebrate?
   2. What do you wish you knew about your craft or profession 6 months ago? What about 10 years ago?
   3. What’s a special geographic/physical location to you, and why?
   4. What’s surprised you about parenting in a good way?
   5. What’s surprised you about business or work in a good way?

BIO

Sarah Greesonbach is the founder of the B2B Writing Institute, a rigorous training program that prepares writers for a vibrant career in B2B marketing.

Since 2013, Sarah has operated B2B Content Studio and invoiced more than $1 million as a freelance writer. Writing for agencies and Fortune 500 technology companies in the HR, retail/e-com, and higher education space, Sarah develops B2B content marketing assets like original research, white papers, and more.

BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLE

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00 – 00:24
Sarah Greesonbach: People don’t care what you’re talking about. They care how you feel about it and how you make them feel about it. And so people don’t care what information we’re posting, but if we can share it in a way that finally lets it connect or lets them connect emotionally with themselves, like some kind of in there communication-wise, that’s what makes people actually stop and pay attention and maybe even look forward to the next thing you’re going to share.

00:28 – 01:12
Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist Women, where we’re all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I’m Rachelle Moulton, and today I’m here with my pal Sarah  Greesonbach, who is the founder of the B2B Writing Institute, which is a rigorous training program that prepares writers for a vibrant career in B2B marketing. And since 2013, Sarah has operated B2B content studio and invoice more than a million dollars as a freelance writer. Writing for agencies and Fortune 500 technology companies in the HR, retail, e-comm, and higher education space, Sarah develops B2B content marketing assets like original research, white

01:12 – 01:28
Rochelle Moulton: papers, and more. Sarah, welcome. Hello, Thank you so much for having me. And I’ve been such a fan of your stuff for so long that this is quite literally the fanciest I’ve ever felt in my life. So thank you. Well that’s our goal is to make everybody here feel fancy.

01:29 – 01:32
Sarah Greesonbach: I do if I had to check the mirror to make sure I wasn’t wearing a top hat.

01:32 – 02:04
Rochelle Moulton: Well, I had to say your hair looked fabulous today. I just say that. Okay. So I just had to have you on the show to talk about your LinkedIn presence. And I realized that you have the very distinct advantage of being a writer and a very, very witty one. Truly. Thank you. Yeah. But your LinkedIn posts always draw me in because of their humanity. I feel like they show you as a real professional and a real person. And of course, we’re going to talk about your business too. You know I’m going to want to do that.

02:04 – 02:19
Rochelle Moulton: But maybe I should say your 2 businesses, right? Since you write for clients and you teach other writers through your B2B writing institute. So let’s start with kind of your overall business. How long did it take you to hit your first 100, 000?

02:21 – 02:41
Sarah Greesonbach: Ooh, that would have been maybe 2 and a half years in. And I was actually boosted by my first maternity leave because that was my real motivation. I had gone through that first year of just replacing my salary and that second year of almost hitting 100K. And then suddenly I was pregnant and it was like, this is the year this is going to happen.

02:41 – 02:44
Rochelle Moulton: Oh, I have no choice, right?

02:44 – 02:48
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, it really was just up against the wall. You have to make it happen.

02:48 – 03:10
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, yeah. So talk to us about when and why you started the B2B Institute, because if I understand your career arc correctly, you’ve done this B2B writing, you’ve done it successfully, You figured out how to make 100k plus. You figured out how to take actually 2 maternity leaves. So where in all this did you start the B2B Institute?

03:11 – 03:42
Sarah Greesonbach: The seed or the disgusting little worm actually began when I was a high school English teacher and that’s how I got my start with careers in general and it was just such a bad experience that it really put me off teaching and it made me question what my purpose was and if I had maybe gotten that wrong And I’m sure we can all imagine like when you crash and burn with a career choice Suddenly you’re questioning all of your intuition and all of the decisions you’ve ever made which is really pleasant So when I bounced back

03:42 – 04:13
Sarah Greesonbach: and kind of returned to like maybe I’m a writer maybe that’s what I’m supposed to do I got into government contracting and then marketing and was suddenly laid off and so that’s what threw me into freelancing. So eventually it took about 5 years for the teacher in me to heal and for me to remember like how important it is for me to help other people achieve something or transform something or learn a new skill. And so once I started doing some webinars, some teaching, it just really felt like the right thing to do. And that that

04:13 – 04:19
Sarah Greesonbach: showed me that my path could be teaching and not getting rocks thrown at me in high school lunchrooms.

04:20 – 04:23
Rochelle Moulton: Oh, I don’t even want to, I try to forget high school myself.

04:23 – 04:24
Sarah Greesonbach: True story.

04:26 – 04:43
Rochelle Moulton: So it’s challenging serving 2 audiences, right? Because you, you’ve got the clients that you’re trying to attract with your writing and you have writers that you want to teach how to become better B2B writers. So how did you serve 2 audiences and are you still doing that now?

04:44 – 05:18
Sarah Greesonbach: I am and I was actually really sneaky about it because what I did was learn from people like you and Jonathan Stark and the book, Book Solid, Michael Port, just all of that stuff. And I was really intentional about building a client base that was recurring so that I don’t actually have to prospect all that much to keep the writing side of my business going. It’s truly like 90% recurring clients and clients I’ve had for 3 to 5 years. And so I did have a lot of inner emotional turmoil of, am I allowed to talk about

05:18 – 05:26
Sarah Greesonbach: freelancing? Will that put off my old clients and stuff? But surprisingly, no 1 really cares and it hasn’t affected the writing work that I’ve been able to do.

05:27 – 05:43
Rochelle Moulton: Well, you know, what’s also interesting is I think we also over index on what we think our clients care about what we do. Cause I’m like a lot of them, they never go to our website, right? They, they may or may not read the stuff that we send out to our email list. They may not even be on our email list.

05:43 – 05:50
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah. It’s kind of like your family. They don’t know what you’re doing. They care about you, but they don’t necessarily care what you’re saying on LinkedIn.

05:51 – 05:55
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, well they just don’t get it. That happens too.

05:55 – 05:56
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah.

05:56 – 06:29
Rochelle Moulton: So I saw that you said, and I’m gonna quote, successful social media was about giving myself intentional time, space, and permission. Love that permission. To say what I want to say and to put thought and time and intention into how I phrase what I think. So I like that you see using social as an opportunity, but what made you start down the path to conquering social, specifically with LinkedIn? Was there like a single event or a situation that made you decide to go all in?

06:29 – 07:04
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, For me, I’ve always tried to follow the path of where my customers were going to go for information. And since I had some early work in career transition to help people jump from basically being Smeez in their line of work to writing as Smeez. And just everybody heads to LinkedIn once they start thinking about jobs. So it always really stood out as a place where everybody else is kind of boring for the most part. So you could stand out just by being funny or sharing something obvious, almost like improv or stand up. And then it’s

07:04 – 07:19
Sarah Greesonbach: where people go when they start thinking about businessy, worky kind of stuff. And so it just seemed really obvious if I can use that network effect and show people what I’m thinking or what goes on behind the scenes, that that would be a way to build trust over the long term.

07:20 – 07:24
Rochelle Moulton: Okay. And when did you really go all in? How long ago is that?

07:24 – 07:27
Sarah Greesonbach: I’d say it’d be 3 to 5 years.

07:27 – 07:29
Rochelle Moulton: Oh, it’s not that long in the scheme of things.

07:30 – 07:58
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, I had a lot of hangups when I first started. Man, it just seems like it’s all hangups at this point. But 1 I remember really clearly was the sense that if I want to be an authority in the space, then I need to be very neutral and very formal and very authoritative, like all the boring things that have come before. And so right before COVID, I went to a retreat in New York. And 1 of the things was doing some mindset exercises and writing out how we’ve been approaching things and how we’re going to change

07:58 – 08:12
Sarah Greesonbach: things. And I just had this light bulb moment of, I’m gonna stop trying to pursue authority by being neutral. And I’m going to like actually be more human, like exactly what you said. And that was when people actually started caring what I was saying.

08:13 – 08:23
Rochelle Moulton: Wow. I feel like that’s a mic drop moment where you realize you can be yourself and you can have an opinion and you can really find your own voice.

08:24 – 08:56
Sarah Greesonbach: Ooh, yeah, that’s like 12 mic drops right there. Cause there were so many reasons. I’m generally a fairly confident person and I know I have things to contribute, but when it came to Getting on the internet and telling people to look at me and listen to me I definitely had to give myself permission for that and to just accept that maybe I had something relevant for people to see and hear. It was a process I would not have gotten through without 2 coaches. A mind tech coach and a business coach and lots of crying.

08:56 – 09:13
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. Clearly you’re a terrific writer but Lots of great writers crash and burn on LinkedIn and Twitter too, for that matter. So what goals did you have at first and how did you start making it work for you? I mean, once you decided not to be bland.

09:14 – 09:47
Sarah Greesonbach: Oh, I love that because at first I definitely thought if I just show off how much I know about writing or business then surely droves and droves of people Fuck to see what I have to say and obviously that’s not a good decision because the internet is full of information. It’s actually, so I do improv for fun with my husband. And 1 of the lessons they really hammer in is people don’t care what you’re talking about. They care how you feel about it and how you make them feel about it. And so people don’t care what

09:47 – 10:04
Sarah Greesonbach: information we’re posting, but if we can share it in a way that finally lets it connect or lets them connect emotionally with themselves, like some kind of in there communication wise, that’s what makes people actually stop and pay attention and maybe even look forward to the next thing you’re going to share.

10:04 – 10:39
Rochelle Moulton: Well, it’s working on me because like, first of all, you post a lot. So you’re in my feed a lot, but I never pass them by. Like sometimes If they’re really long, I might scan them. And the other thing that you do that’s really intriguing to me, I’m so in awe, I just could not do this myself, is you’ll get, let’s say 10, 20, even 30 responses on something, and you’ll have this quick witty response to each 1. Like, I think just recently you said something to me, I commented on something and you said, I’m putting

10:39 – 10:50
Rochelle Moulton: on a hat and I’m tipping it. Who says that? But it made me feel seen and appreciated. And it was clever. I mean, I just love that you’re able to do that.

10:50 – 11:03
Sarah Greesonbach: Oh, I love that. Thank you. Yeah, I definitely had to talk myself into being more comfortable. And sometimes I just have to go with whatever comes to mind first, and really not think about the consequences.

11:03 – 11:19
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. Well, and sometimes you’re a little goofy, which I love. I think you had something, like there was something for 1 of the products that you were selling. Like there was some extra that came with it. I can’t remember. I think it was like a drawing of a cat or something. I can’t remember.

11:19 – 11:20
Sarah Greesonbach: The crap dragon.

11:20 – 11:25
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. That was it. The crap dragon. I love that. I thought that was genius.

11:25 – 11:27
Sarah Greesonbach: That’s a deep dive. Yeah.

11:29 – 11:33
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So What do you see as your goals for LinkedIn now?

11:34 – 12:08
Sarah Greesonbach: Again, I feel like I’m admitting to being really sneaky, but that is what marketing does sometimes. And I think I realized my goal for LinkedIn is to be known and be able to have a relationship with people because they can’t trust and like you or buy from you until they actually feel like they know you. And once that clicked for me and once I realized it could be safe to be known on LinkedIn, Then it got really easy to share about marriage and parenting and the times in my business that I felt failure. We had mentioned

12:08 – 12:12
Sarah Greesonbach: a little bit about weight stuff and being a plus-size person online.

12:12 – 12:36
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. Will you talk about that for a moment? Sure. Because anybody who doesn’t look like what they think is the entertainment norm, right? Like A58 blonde haired white woman with blue eyes, right? Anybody who’s who doesn’t feel like they’re that archetype can often have a lot of trouble getting in front of a camera or a microphone or a LinkedIn page.

12:37 – 13:10
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, it kills me how subconscious it can be, because if you had asked me if I thought that had anything to do with leadership or being in public, I would have laughed and kind of scooched past you on the sidewalk. But when I went to do it, it was suddenly, everything was cold. My intuition was like, no, don’t do this. It’s dangerous. You can’t do this. And When I did that inner work with the coaches and the journaling and stuff it came up Well, who am I to contribute anything since I’m fat? Once I wrote that

13:10 – 13:38
Sarah Greesonbach: down and I read that and I was like, do I actually believe that that can’t be no that who would believe that because it sounds so crazy, but I was holding that belief with what I was doing. And that literally kept me from posting something online that I thought. I thought that was really silly. So I had to address that and then move past it kind of like, gosh, was it the big leap? Just something where once you shine a light on it, it disappears and you can move past it. And I had to do that

13:38 – 13:39
Sarah Greesonbach: really intentionally.

13:40 – 14:03
Rochelle Moulton: Well, thank God you did, because the world needs your voice. We need your voice. And just thank you for sharing that, Sarah, because I think a lot of us have had, you know, very private struggles with that and putting our voice out there, attaching our names or our faces to a belief that feels scary. And yeah, and once you shine a light on it, you might even like the spotlight.

14:03 – 14:30
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah. And I have worked with at least 3 or 4 coaching clients at this point who feel that way about age. Again, it just kills me that someone would have this outrageous, wonderful experience in these cool life stories, and then hesitate to share something because they think they might look old or they might not look the way they’re supposed to look when I would find those the most interesting stories in my feed. So I I love being able to encourage people to do that.

14:31 – 15:08
Rochelle Moulton: Ageism is alive and rampant. Yeah and especially women of a certain age, we tend to be invisible. So it’s yeah, it’s pushing those stories out. Just as a side note, though, if anybody is dealing with this, go on Instagram and pay attention to some women in their late 70s, 80s, and yes, 90s, who are posting all sorts of really interesting things. So I wanna get some advice from you, Sarah, for our audience. So let’s say that I’m a listener to this podcast. I have an email list. I have a set of services. And up till now,

15:08 – 15:18
Rochelle Moulton: I’m mostly either a lurker or a post and run in LinkedIn. So Where do I start? What should I be thinking about and doing?

15:18 – 15:51
Sarah Greesonbach: I would tell you to go to the infrared sauna Because the funny thing happens When you are naked and sweaty and trapped away from your phone for an hour Because you can’t like your phone overheats if you bring it in there and you can’t talk with anyone. And what I found was once I made some room and some space to actually think and let my ideas have the stage, so to speak, once I turned them on, they really started flowing. And before I did that, literally infrared sauna for me, but it might be swimming for someone

15:51 – 16:15
Sarah Greesonbach: else or walking. Once I did that, I couldn’t stop having ideas. And so now I keep that little notes app handy and I’ll just jot stuff down whenever it comes up. Because I think that first barrier is, what do I have to say? I’m just super busy and I’m reading what everybody else is doing and I’m taking in a lot of information. And so you have to create a little pond for it to gather and then you can put out your own stuff.

16:16 – 16:40
Rochelle Moulton: Well, you know, it’s funny because I talk a lot about point of view and developing a point of view sometimes is intimidating to people. Whereas what you described is really the first step in getting to a point of view. It’s like having that pond is a really good first step if you’re not sure yet what your point of view is. Do you think that you worked out your point of view through your social posts?

16:41 – 17:09
Sarah Greesonbach: A hundred percent. I had this Joan Didion quote that I saved that is so meaningful. This idea that I write entirely to find out what I’m thinking and what I’m looking at and what I see And what it means what I want and what I fear and I absolutely found by trying to shape whatever Floating thought into some kind of linkedin worthy content I would figure out how I felt about something or I’d even write something that I didn’t agree with and then be like, wait, why would I say that? I don’t agree with it. And

17:09 – 17:12
Sarah Greesonbach: then have to rewrite it for something that I actually believe.

17:12 – 17:17
Rochelle Moulton: I love that quote. I’ve heard that before and now I’m wondering if I heard that in your LinkedIn

17:17 – 17:45
Sarah Greesonbach: instead of from somewhere else. Yeah, and it reminds me of what you and Jonathan were saying about guided experimentation. And that’s been the approach that I really like for LinkedIn, which is I’m going to share something and kind of see how it reacts, see how my target audience reacts. Because some things that I think should have been just in baseball, like you just knock it out of the park, got crickets, and then stuff that I just threw out there ended up being really popular.

17:46 – 17:54
Rochelle Moulton: Isn’t that amazing when that happens? It is. And it happens more often than we think. Even when we think we understand our audience, there’s still those surprises.

17:55 – 18:04
Sarah Greesonbach: Because it’s the space between us, which is where the communication is, and it’s not like what we’ve shared in the message we’re sharing because we can’t really be sure they’re getting what we’re putting out.

18:05 – 18:36
Rochelle Moulton: I’m kind of wondering if you have a process or if it just sort of emerged organically where you’re toying with an idea, you’re writing about it in LinkedIn, you’re getting some feedback, maybe you’re getting different feedback from different kinds of audience members. Do you have like a circuit that you run that through to say, oh, yes, this is going to change my point of view on this, or this is just another plank in my content system? Is there some sort of a feedback loop that you use?

18:36 – 19:08
Sarah Greesonbach: I’m sure there is naturally just with like how I feel when I’m reading something, but mainly it was about creating a place for capture. So either a physical notebook that I keep out or the notes app on my phone that can be on computer and phone. And what I’ll try to do because my life is so hectic with 2 young kids and being a human being that I try to make sure if any phrase or word comes to mind that’s interesting, I just get into that app. And then whatever time I’ve set aside to actually publish

19:08 – 19:13
Sarah Greesonbach: something or whenever I’m in the mood for it, I can go to that app and refine it and pull it out.

19:14 – 19:25
Rochelle Moulton: Got it. Do you sell directly on LinkedIn? When you have something to announce, are you pushing it out there? And if you are, how often are you doing it as part of all of your posting?

19:25 – 19:30
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, I think I’ve done that like 3 times. So not really, because I try

19:30 – 19:32
Rochelle Moulton: to really focus 5 years.

19:32 – 19:56
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, right. I try to focus on building trust, because I think maybe just because I’m so sensitive to a pitch that if I did that too much, I’d be really worried that people would come to not trust that what I’m going to share is going to be fun. So I have, let’s say, 3 times a year if I actively pitch for coaching, I might share 1 post saying, I have some spots open if you ever want to work with me, DM me.

19:56 – 20:06
Rochelle Moulton: I just want to make sure I understand. So you think you’re pitching something 3 times a year or 3 times in the course of the 3 to 5 years you’ve really ramped up LinkedIn?

20:07 – 20:17
Sarah Greesonbach: I’d say I’ve offered coaching once or twice the past year. And then before that, I didn’t really point to my services or projects.

20:18 – 20:22
Rochelle Moulton: So do you find that LinkedIn has grown your email list?

20:22 – 20:43
Sarah Greesonbach: That is 1 thing I’m working on because I think the conversion from LinkedIn to email isn’t great but the people that do go end up signing up for one-on-one coaching. So I see that in my intake form a ton, which is I’ve been following you on LinkedIn forever. And it was just so fun and informative that I moved over here and then now I’m ready to coach.

20:44 – 21:13
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, because that’s kind of the question that a lot of people in the expertise space play with. It’s like, do I use LinkedIn or any social as a place where I am just connecting with people? I’m getting them to trust me as, as you stated is, or it’s really, and, or is it a place where I can do some sales and what’s the right balance? Cause it sounds like this is just my perception. This could be totally wrong, but I feel like you’re in my feed a lot. So I’m imagining that you’re posting at least 2

21:13 – 21:16
Rochelle Moulton: or 3 times a day in LinkedIn. Is that right? Or is that?

21:17 – 21:28
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, I’ve had seasons where I go lower or higher, but I do try it for 2 or 3 times. So I’ll do something straightforward and helpful in the morning and then something tongue in cheek or funny in the evening.

21:31 – 22:03
Rochelle Moulton: I like that. That makes sense to me. What’s interesting is you could perhaps sell more. There’s no should in this, but it is interesting. Yeah. Because I’m thinking of somebody else who posts a lot in LinkedIn, David C. Baker, who has been this space, and he does sell. I mean, he does it low key, but he sells a fair amount. So it’s part of the conundrum I think is finding that right balance between getting to know people, having them know, like and trust you and then also being able to put your stuff out there if you’re

22:03 – 22:08
Rochelle Moulton: not converting from whatever social app it is to your email list.

22:08 – 22:19
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, that was my first question is, does that actually lead to sales? Or could that be part of a longer funnel where you’re just exposing people to the idea that you have something to buy, because that’s valuable too.

22:19 – 22:27
Rochelle Moulton: Exactly. It goes back to what do you want LinkedIn to do for you? Yeah. It’s the key. And you know what you want.

22:27 – 22:28
Sarah Greesonbach: Exactly.

22:28 – 22:40
Rochelle Moulton: Okay. So if I’m more of an intermediate LinkedIn user, Is there a way that I can kind of rev up the LinkedIn machine without spending a ton more time on it?

22:41 – 23:08
Sarah Greesonbach: When I think of intermediate people who might be established in their business and they’re ready to maybe take it to the next level or be exposed to their clients in a new way. I think what comes to mind for me is that there’s usually this block that it needs to be a perfectly shaped idea or this perfect brand baby just needs to be presented and then Everyone will go nuts on it and just be really excited. And I think what would help with that is accepting that it’s a bit more gestational, and it really is like

23:08 – 23:23
Sarah Greesonbach: growing in public and developing in public. So sharing your ideas before you think they’re ready and letting people see you kind of flounder and grasp at what you’re trying to say, like as much as you can make it interactive with people.

23:24 – 23:32
Rochelle Moulton: That is fascinating to me because I think as experts, that’s the opposite of our natural inclination. So how do we get better at doing that?

23:33 – 24:08
Sarah Greesonbach: Humility and great coaches. Yeah, because I think of, you know, if you picture the most inspiring expert you can imagine, let’s say Taylor Swift is going to be on LinkedIn and just kill it. What would be most interesting to hear from her? Would it be, here’s how I thought of a great song, or would it be, here’s a crazy traumatic struggle I went through and how I used my inner strength to deal with it? And I feel like we’re going to be drawn to someone who’s developing and sharing and being vulnerable in those new ways. Maybe

24:08 – 24:18
Sarah Greesonbach: it’s just part of kind of new marketing or modern marketing. As a solopreneur, we really have to be trustworthy and let people know us. And I think showing the struggle is what does that.

24:19 – 24:25
Rochelle Moulton: I have this yin yang reaction to that because let’s use Taylor Swift as an example. I’d like to hear both.

24:25 – 24:25
Sarah Greesonbach: I

24:25 – 24:34
Rochelle Moulton: want to hear both of those things. And there is a thing that happens in LinkedIn where somebody comes up and they talk about a traumatizing experience.

24:35 – 24:35
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah.

24:36 – 24:40
Rochelle Moulton: That kind of isn’t, you know what I mean? What I’m talking about here.

24:40 – 24:43
Sarah Greesonbach: Oh yeah. Swinging way too far in the other direction.

24:43 – 25:14
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. It’s a little bit like we have to trade pain. And so I love to know about the pain points of people that are in my universe. I think it’s really helpful and it’s really interesting. What I don’t want is I don’t want to feel manipulated by it. And I want the other side too. What do you think about that? I mean, is it just that modern marketing is all about, you know, let me show you my pain and then I got through it and if you buy this thing, you will get through it too.

25:15 – 25:17
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah. Well, depending on your product, I guess.

25:17 – 25:18
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah.

25:18 – 25:50
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah. I heart agree with you because sometimes it feels like every influencer is just 2 seconds away from having a breakdown and reporting in from like an addiction facility. And then you’re like, but what about all the beach vacations you showed me? And you promised you were happy, that kind of thing. And I think it’s more about ratios. So I’m gonna share something, like I shared about an abusive relationship I had as a young person, and that was once last year. And that’s the last time I’m going to mention that. Like, I’m not going to return

25:50 – 25:51
Sarah Greesonbach: to that theme.

25:52 – 26:04
Rochelle Moulton: I remember that it really touched me. And I felt like it taught me something about you that was valuable. I didn’t feel manipulated by that at all. And it was the opposite. I felt empathy.

26:05 – 26:31
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, and I wonder if the ratio is what does that. Because if I hammered on that as a theme every month and built up this whole persona as some kind of survivor, which is way more extreme than what the situation was, I think that’s where it would turn into manipulation. But for me, sharing once and maybe referencing that in a year review next year or something, that wouldn’t cross the line into oversharing. That would still feel vulnerable and meaningful.

26:31 – 26:59
Rochelle Moulton: Right. There isn’t a magic formula, but it sounds like it’s really what feels comfortable to you. And maybe you have to push yourself. Maybe you need a coach or sometimes a therapist to get through some of those things and to be able to really, I don’t want to say use this, but to share things in a way that you’re comfortable with, that are reasonable to you, and that bring you closer to your ideal audience.

27:00 – 27:13
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, to let this fertilize what you’re doing might be how I think about it. Because it doesn’t change what we’re doing. It’s just revealing a bit more of the person who’s doing it.

27:13 – 27:34
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, and I feel like I’m tiptoeing through this because I don’t ever want to minimize someone’s real lived experiences that were tragic or difficult. It was just when it crosses the line to manipulation is when it just starts to get that icky feeling.

27:34 – 27:56
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, and I think that is like a dance that marketing will do till the end of time because all of the marketing and copywriting tips are about how to instigate emotion in someone else and sometimes negative emotion. And it’s like, how is this not manipulating people if we’re specifically trying to drive urgency in a feeling of lack and fear and stuff?

27:56 – 28:03
Rochelle Moulton: All marketing is manipulation or all marketers are liars, as Seth Godin said on the cover of a book.

28:03 – 28:05
Sarah Greesonbach: To quote the man in the myth. Yeah.

28:05 – 28:26
Rochelle Moulton: Yes. Yes. Is there anything else that you would like to talk to us about in terms of how we can become better at LinkedIn? I don’t like hacks. I’m not into hacks, but are there tips or even if I want to say shortcuts, but maybe some prompts that could help us to do a better job on LinkedIn?

28:26 – 28:58
Sarah Greesonbach: To be a little sassy, I think the hack is being present with yourself and giving yourself permission to try this and not have it be knocked out of the park right away. But I do have maybe there’s this platform specific techniques. I think there’s 2 things that have been really neat on LinkedIn that I could share that are kind of secrets that I think everybody would feel really fancy once they know, all right? Ready for secrets? We love secrets. Number 1, when someone does like and connect with your post, go and connect with them if they’re

28:58 – 29:24
Sarah Greesonbach: a second degree or third degree, because what you’ve done is they’ve already qualified themselves as someone who agrees with or likes whatever you’ve done. And so you’re building a pool of people who are kind of already a shoe in to like whatever you’re going to share. And then that adds to the network effect of whatever you share next. And I think that’s been a really cool thing that I’ll do. And maybe at some point I had my virtual assistant do that, where if a post went really well and there was like a hundred people liking it,

29:24 – 29:31
Sarah Greesonbach: something like that, I would have them open everybody who liked or commented and just connect with all the second degree connections.

29:31 – 29:34
Rochelle Moulton: Yes, and that’s an easy thing to hand off.

29:35 – 30:05
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, totally. And then the other 1 I’m gonna say, recently I’ve been modeling other people. So I’ll find somebody who posts content that just really goes over well and people seem to really like, and then I’ll write my version of it. So I’ve been looking at David Gerhart, I think, from Take 5, something in marketing, and he’ll do these interesting formats that you can copy and paste it, essentially, and then rewrite it from your perspective. So He might do 5 things I’ve learned about marketing in 10 years, for example, and then I could do 5 things

30:05 – 30:15
Sarah Greesonbach: I’ve learned about writing in 10 years and just kind of steal that format or form of what they’re doing. And I was surprised to see that’s been 2 of my more popular posts in the past month.

30:16 – 30:18
Rochelle Moulton: I love that you change it up.

30:18 – 30:18
Sarah Greesonbach: Oh, yeah.

30:18 – 30:38
Rochelle Moulton: It is funny because I always have this love hate relationship with looking at somebody else because on the 1 hand, it’s helpful, right? Because then we’re not just in our own heads. And then the flip side, I’m hyper conscious of, I don’t want to be a copy of somebody else. But what you did was take that and apply it to your point of view and your style.

30:39 – 30:58
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah. I think it’s like a different filter on your camera. Like you could take the same picture and then put 10 different filters on it. So I wonder if Rochelle wrote a post that was based on a filter from someone else. Like, what would that look like? And it just adds to that dimension of discovering yourself and kind of gestating what you think.

30:58 – 31:24
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. And I’m going to argue that I do it all the time. It’s not always intentional. Sometimes it’s I read something that somebody wrote and I went, Oh, it is not necessarily in LinkedIn, but maybe in my email thing, I was like, Oh, that’s a really good tactic. I like that. And if it’s really different, I’m actually going to write it down and put it in a place where I go to for inspiration I think a lot of us do it unconsciously too because we model what we read.

31:25 – 31:30
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah if we’re reading I’ve been focusing on my reading habit for the best year

31:31 – 31:59
Rochelle Moulton: Well, I was thinking just my emails. I’m on so many different lists and I know everybody likes to pare theirs down, but I have a fair number and I don’t read every 1. Sometimes I scan some, sometimes I just hit delete if they’re piling up. I like to be exposed to a lot of different thinkers and see what they bring to the party. Is there anything else I should ask you about LinkedIn? Because otherwise I have another question, different question for you.

31:59 – 32:32
Sarah Greesonbach: I did have kind of a final thought, just the sense of that success on LinkedIn is going viral. And this really hit home for me because I had a couple posts go pretty big, like with 75, 000 or a hundred thousand views. And John Acuff shared 1 thing once. And I was just on the edge of my seat ready for that to change my life. And nothing happened. Like truly, truly nothing. Like maybe there’s some opportunity I don’t know about that’s brewing for the next 5 years. But it just changed nothing. And it made it really

32:32 – 32:53
Sarah Greesonbach: clear that what matters to me about LinkedIn is the fact that there are people in the world who have something I wrote on a sticky note by their desk at their office. And it’s just like, that’s what means everything with this. And if you can find your audience and the people you help the best and help them have that kind of relationship with you, I think that’s what is going to make LinkedIn just the best thing in the world. And that’s what really warmed me up to it.

32:53 – 32:57
Rochelle Moulton: Well, and that’s your thing, isn’t it? The sticky notes, like, oh, yeah, write this down.

32:58 – 33:00
Sarah Greesonbach: I saved pictures. I saved pictures of that.

33:01 – 33:21
Rochelle Moulton: I love it when you can make this stuff visual, right? Cause most of us were writing about stuff. We’re not necessarily visual unless we’re designers, but yeah, I love those pictures of the sticky notes. So Sarah, if you could go back to who you were when you first started your business, what’s the 1 thing you’d advise her to do?

33:22 – 33:59
Sarah Greesonbach: Oh gosh. Maximize therapy and coaching. It’s awesome you brought that up because what I do is kind of ping-pong between using business coaching to uncover whatever deep internal thing is going on and then I go over to my therapist and talk through that. And then once I’ve kind of healed that, I go back over to the business coach and like work through the next level. So I think being as willing as possible to explore the inner work and the inner stuff going on, it’s just clear and clear that lack of information is not what is preventing

33:59 – 34:07
Sarah Greesonbach: all of us from doing stuff. It’s the emotional and the intellectual, the presence and permission that is all of this.

34:07 – 34:41
Rochelle Moulton: Well, and thank you for sharing that about therapy and coaching because as a coach, I’m not a therapist and I have very specific boundaries that I don’t cross because they would cross the line into therapy and I’m not a qualified therapist. And so a number of my clients have both me and a therapist and it can be really helpful when you have to unpack something. And there are things about your life and about your history that you don’t necessarily want to unpack with a coach or you maybe want to share it but not unpack it because

34:41 – 34:43
Rochelle Moulton: they’re not qualified to do so.

34:44 – 35:03
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah they’ve been so many times just going through chronic illness and a lot of stress as a parent that I’ve had to tell my coach something to the effect of like, here are the things I’m not ready to talk about. And I’ll make a whole list of like what’s going on, but that I don’t want to talk about. And then we’ll be able to compartmentalize and just really focus on whatever’s relevant for that relationship.

35:04 – 35:16
Rochelle Moulton: Very smart. I love that. Sarah, we’re going to be putting all sorts of links to you and your content and LinkedIn in the show notes, but where’s the best place for people to learn more about you?

35:16 – 35:17
Sarah Greesonbach: Let’s get friendly on LinkedIn.

35:18 – 35:30
Rochelle Moulton: That’s what I’m thinking. I kind of figured you were going to say that. And the link will be in the show notes. So please connect with Sarah. You will not be disappointed seeing her face in your feed. I guarantee.

35:31 – 35:48
Sarah Greesonbach: I guarantee. And I only do a picture like once a quarter, so it won’t be all the time. And I was wondering, so I have this cool list of prompts to help people get a little more comfortable talking on LinkedIn. And I wondered if I could feel the question or 2 your way to see if that sparked anything for you.

35:48 – 35:52
Rochelle Moulton: Oh, you could try because I’m definitely not a LinkedIn ninja.

35:53 – 36:03
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, I noticed 1 thing I’d also share is a hack is just never sharing off-site links. I found any time I do that, it just drops who LinkedIn shows it to.

36:03 – 36:04
Rochelle Moulton: Gotcha.

36:04 – 36:13
Sarah Greesonbach: So 1 question, I’m very curious, what 3 things would make up the Rochelle starter pack if you had to think about like physical items and things in your life?

36:15 – 36:57
Rochelle Moulton: So I always have a cup of tea in my hand and it’s English tea. Let’s see. I’m actually looking at a picture right now, which I think would also be part of the starter pack. It’s a painting of the town in France where I was born. And it has these 2 towers from I think, 14 or 1500 in it. And if my place were on fire, it’s the thing I would rescue and carry out the door. It’s like that link back to something that always made me feel special. And… Yeah, kind of like not ordinary, let’s

36:57 – 37:33
Rochelle Moulton: put it that way. And I guess the Third 1 would probably be a speedy car. Like I have a, my car is 25 years old. No, it’s not red actually. It should be. That would be like my logical color. It’s actually British racing green, but I have a little BMW Z3 and it doesn’t have to be that. I mean, it’s an old car, but it’s a roadster. And there’s something about putting the top down and it’s also a stick shift and just like getting out. And it’s again, it’s not a huge engine. I mean, it’s this

37:33 – 37:45
Rochelle Moulton: little 6 cylinder, but it’s fast and fast enough for me like a Porsche I’d probably wrap around a tree Yeah, so I think the tea the painting and my roadster.

37:45 – 37:48
Sarah Greesonbach: I love that. I feel like I know you a little better now.

37:48 – 37:54
Rochelle Moulton: Yeah. So now I need to like work this into my LinkedIn because I guarantee none of that is in there. Right?

37:55 – 38:06
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah. Cool. And then maybe 1 more because I am actually really curious what it is. In a non-grouchy way, what important things do you think younger generations misunderstand or tend to get wrong about business?

38:06 – 38:10
Rochelle Moulton: Ooh, in a non grouchy way. I love that.

38:10 – 38:12
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, none of the kids off my lawn kind of stuff.

38:12 – 38:42
Rochelle Moulton: I know. I know. Nobody wants to listen to that on either end of the age spectrum. I think 1 of the things is that it should be easy, that there’s this belief that it’s just magical. And I think the reason a lot of people in say their 20s, but usually by their 30s, that notion has been knocked out of their heads. But in their 20s, a lot of times they’re looking in social media. They’re looking at all these people going, see, I’m successful. See my house, see my car, see my designer dog. So there’s this expectation

38:43 – 39:18
Rochelle Moulton: that success should be easy. And not that it has to be hard when you find your way, but I think that causes us a lot of challenges when we think it should be easy and then it isn’t. And then we start to think, oh, what is this? Is this about me? Is there something wrong with me because all these other people are doing well? And then it messes with your head. So I think that it’s really thinking about success in terms of enjoying what you do, being challenged by what you do, and feeling like you’re making

39:18 – 39:21
Rochelle Moulton: progress even if some days it’s just very incremental.

39:22 – 39:25
Sarah Greesonbach: Oh, yeah. That’s a deep truth.

39:25 – 39:51
Rochelle Moulton: And I think back to like when I was in my 20s and I was so oblivious, I just worked all the time because I loved what I did so much. And I realized I was not the norm, but they flew by. Like I missed a whole lot of stuff people do in their twenties because like I was doing this work stuff that I was fascinated by. So yeah, yeah. I think it’s about success. You really turned the tables on me, Miss Sarah.

39:51 – 39:56
Sarah Greesonbach: Well, when you got a smartie in your presence, you gotta grill them a

39:56 – 40:24
Rochelle Moulton: little bit. Well, that’s what I was thinking we’d been doing with you. I do love the exercise. And I think that if you take some of these prompts, you know, those are 2 good ones. And Sarah, I know you have a list of them. And so I think maybe we’ll share some in the show notes if you want to share a couple more. Absolutely. But I think whether you ask yourself this and start to write them down or it’s just you think about it, I like the way that it brings out something about the person that

40:24 – 40:26
Rochelle Moulton: may not be obvious, probably isn’t obvious.

40:27 – 40:47
Sarah Greesonbach: Yeah, and even if you’re a rebel, which I tend to be, With these questions, it’s kind of like even if you don’t want to answer it You can learn something from yourself about yourself from your desire not to answer it Sometimes I’ll get a prompt and I’m like, well, I think that’s stupid and then I can start to write about why I think it’s stupid It still leads me somewhere. It still reveals something.

40:47 – 41:15
Rochelle Moulton: Yes. It’s also given me a little insight into how that brain of yours works. Idea, idea, idea, idea. Well, Sarah, I just want to say a great big Thank you. I knew when I asked you to do this, that it would be fun, that was a given, but I also knew that it would be rich with ideas and your own particular point of view. And I just thank you so much for sharing with the audience.

41:16 – 41:27
Sarah Greesonbach: No, no, thank you. I feel like the person I showed up as today is just the person I would really love to be. So I think you create an environment that people can do that. So

41:28 – 41:49
Rochelle Moulton: thank you. Thank you, Sarah. Okay, so before we say goodbye today, if you’re looking to connect with like-minded women working in the B2B space, be sure to check out the link to my soloist women community in the show notes. It’s at RochelleMoulton.com slash soloist-women. That’s it for this episode. I hope you’ll join us next time for Soloist Women.